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we have Aubrey de Grey here today - introducing him - he is chief science officer at
SENS Foundation and we're here to talk about longevity advocacy and action in
preparation for Longevity Day which is on October the 1st - we're going to begin
with Aubrey discussing some of the updates from SENS over the last couple of
Yeah, certainly - so first of all thank you very much for doing this especially given
the technical issues we have recently encountered - so yes, over the past 2 years things have been moving pretty fast
really you know when I when I think about questions like this I'm always
torn between whether I should be pleased or disappointed about the rate of progress
there is always such a variation - but i guess I'm fairly pleased. Two years ago we had really only
had one big success in the lab that had got to the point of an impressive proof of concept that
people had historically thought we would never do - and that was in relation to our project
working on atherosclerosis. In 2012 we published a very groundbreaking paper
showing that by introducing a bacterial gene into human cells we could protect
them against the major toxin, the number one toxin that drives the progression of atherosclerosis.
But it was a bit of a one off - we needed to be doing this across the board - and now we really are beginning
to get there - the last year we had a similar but the more impressive action with
regard to engage consumers are systemic amyloidosis
to be the number one killer of a group that we've landed we're able to
demonstrate the big programming stuff using a special couple more things like
that kind of guy that we're getting more and more locations happening with the
ability and integrity
in addition to that would make a really great progress of the airport we have an
education initiative small way when you go on and on
mentoring students who need to get involved while writing during the past
few years
activity education initiative now in touch so we have 20 injured some of them
in our lab and other Indian Boston including one and this is a fantastic
way to bring me into the undergraduate level people and to get them really
understand what we're going out with the other outreach thing that's really going
well and we've extended conference conference series started back in 2003
and 614 we first time running in california in there and it went
extremely well and we didn't stick ball back on just one month ago again in the
difference between those conferences relative to the one that we doing which
i think is the California one lot more variety in terms of well being pretty
much exclusively academic we have involving large button and from other
people like you know regulatory experts policymakers as well so it is rather
Virginia 23320
what you got and legitimize the whole that much more than I could possibly do
standing on stage you getting to be more important level of scientific other
people and now I think you look at that time to pro damage and not only in
Dorset reinvented
happy about that
well really only that the hard part of the Asian place of this makes you need
more of that and that really now what we need to get on with it
of course not completely really are who were at national funding and he is
really really think absolutely i mean like I think he said somewhere where we
had a billion dollars you'd probably be over 20 you estimate you could have the
solution 10 years earlier but up to you my number I think money when exactly the
right when I would say we have a 50 50 chance which work well under batista I
will ask to the ball well we have a really exciting perhaps grab on damage
within about 20 or 25 years from now whereas if we could change struggle
especially over 10 years only stayed with it then that's going so slowly I
think even though we will catch up later on the bus
nevertheless we will be in return
so well I had a look on your skis for his or her effective altruism
out of 52 votes instead of goodwill and blogging about science and this is
focusing on areas that they be under populated and funded and have the
potential for high impact but it's a little bit difficult to measure the
outcomes dollar-for-dollar and unified units efforts so how do you prioritize
where two funds when her family you know
wide-ranging on the whole country to affect about the most in my mind really
that they've all been shown by banks floods that they also have become what
we do what they want to reach within the affected communities in with regard to
try to actually wear the long term I risked our game is something that should
be prioritized members of the more conservative wing to give welfare
organization that holds a degree of leverage can generation of games but in
practice the only thing to their to recommend banding
talked about this and he is firmly
in that she is not just got incalculable up another word basically you are always
going to be over well we all were up to me I want you never going to be able to
make what you won't get well be able to golf community which is actually make
national quantitated
of estimated time for me but now there are certainly plenty developing and
evaluating commuting to you jacking up to that even if they later than like
anti-aging way of optimistic still money because they were in there so I let you
buy it on the last time we talked about general will tend to gravitate to the
more spectrum but it remains to be seen it yet but i think is very there is some
interesting impact you too so astronomical future even if it even if
there isn't like it as much focus on that is what I would like to see it it
useful because effective altruism does give at least some recognition to
astronomical impacts and a lot of the existing charities may not be aware lot
of people who sort of donating to existing charities may not be aware and
ICF HVAC system is
look at Channel for them to become also aware of the message should be in fact
about who the community that charity should not be in motion now of course
the target maybe there is genuine legitimacy to the idea that charges
should be ok they actually care about this year while doing some kind of
objective Asia but the same time I think it's also Federer to recognize that some
network cable or otherwise Jun 21 have some kind of you know in here and
confidence that the money they are giving tradition and that set to go for
the ball I wanted by now you know maybe it's impossible to actually whether the
wedding highway going stuff is good but it's just a question of how you lookin
at you trust people there's too much you know if that if it were anyone really
like it may just be really difficult to decide whether it will really well
whether it makes sense to give you know I don't know I don't pretend to have
strong just like you claim to have dropped by about one thing
ok well I mean giving me the impact of the expected utility
donating to organizations such as sand and others as well
shouldn't people feel good even though they'll never have never even met the
people acting or they might but they're not around now and then what they can
actually see the material comes
ok to be feeling good still working towards and donating such courses you
took him something really important it's very curious and I don't be when you
talk to them to do that to a congressional cause I can almost
envision Africa completely happy with the fact that never made it or interact
with a pullback benefiting from but when it comes to meet a huge number of basic
interest in anyone else they're only interested in them and if they come to
us going to come along with say twenty twenty-five years ago maybe longer and
we agreed that now they say well I'm already won by chance which a well not
all that good then he goes well you know that you care about you
getting it back
they know that people are going to think how you doing well as causes like we
decide against aging but still slow computer bushel and so you know
ambitious what the club the office said they have a concern that they could but
they don't think badly of generating great because that will 19 legislation
has to be self a two-out like that but I'm guessing it lol conversation with a
lot of people unfortunately people who give you money tend to be very happy
about telling you why they gave you money but they don't give you money tend
to be very reluctant ally while it was in terms of like the cost of life but
also on public that also the positive quality of life just quality-adjusted
life years that could be added to each life saying H life I guess improved
would you put in terms of impact a dollar if you could write an interesting
question because if you do the calculation I think you really should
you get completely unequivocal answer completely literally unequivocal answer
because what you are now turning who's that most people who benefit from the
first generation rejuvenation parents are likely to now I don't say that I
generally find it quite ready to talk about people but the fact that actually
ridiculously conservative estimate we called it a badge on the outrageously
ridiculous assumption that we are not going to make any progress
in reducing deaths from other quote if you take into account the button will
want my program especially after with my brother today because we've got to carry
more by next track and so on
trivial calculation to figure out that actually the rate at which one child to
rate will decline to ensure that most people who have $250 million you can
just get really good at fixing things like a strong impact on nearby sleep I
know we are only my platform now we can be certain about it go to be ok with the
calculation gets governorship morning everybody who had been slightly
politically correct so I don't talk about it
which brings me to like that a lot of people using the word immortality and I
don't know if it's actually prove the 11 but living for a very long time I I can
certainly see that happening but what I say it because the the word immortality
has a lot of religious and other scientific connotations it might be
selling the message little get there and I'm worried that people are just using
it to get a bit of attention
whereas they could get attention elsewhere I know there's a lot of my
bias and that sort of talking point there but yeah I just wanted to hear
what should I think that really done it will be able to you were not able to
describe I think we have enough trouble with the fact that journalists can't
really the problem you can't trivialize the subject
the boundary between education and entertain everybody know that is
something very technologically true that in my Google through some kind of you
know religious actual for all we know it's dunno travel by air it talk to
talking that can walk well computer of course from the point of view media
because they know the public and to know that is providing Beijing and they don't
want to get my hopes up but they do want to be in so it makes sense for the media
to actually give me your love their order to maintain some kind of emotional
distance while there are actually
emotional guests in just realized they were getting people not taking seriously
enough to get involved you got to get back into the Iraq and research 2012
advocated by then I am sure you know about this woman began I thought you
know it's okay to be talking about radical and ravaging radical
ultimately if one doesn't talk about a question that we won't be going straight
down the question is going on people of sound biased against their have powerful
media we actually have to be different I have to actually emphasize
in particular I got further I thought only well now I'm actually lying so I
don't get health and longevity on your side effect people alive in a bad thing
we're going to keep him alive on its side effect of keeping healthy but the
point is I didn't understand at the beginning how terribly easy it is
terribly prone people are two missions time for now I going over John Legg
Mason boy and girl I do not work on a motel so what happens when people use
your your interview and then I'll if this man
immortality or we'd also like some sort of article about immortality or chrome
audiobook your mortality of some
yeah I mean you're right it's a big down on the question age should we go they
the maximum publicity global ocean will try to you know a girl I only let people
decide what we do and we try to find a kind of middle ground between we know
that we need to get the word out yet we avoid media exposure in occasional
articles which really killed what we do and I generally try wearing no more
personal aspect then we judged it pretty well we get more
and you know it's it's the same kind of maybe a public figure what we've always
done that we have it in my like this particularly like the fact that you
noticed that a lot of aspects of media really about trying to keep people
emotionally attached or have emotional reactions to things cause that's what
really feels most of the industry are there and as long as they start thinking
critically internationally it you know they let chances of actually doing it
which is i guess im not sure rendition of what makes it so let's talk about
like advocacy and action programs and advocacy but if you were to give people
like instructions on how to be good advocate know what what can they do what
they need to know and watch them in order to begin with so I actually talked
about this weeks ago one of the securities investor
anyway to think with two essential component to being an effective out with
essential community obviously they don't agree to way people can detailed
scientific work at most a great mother and most people were gonna go out there
and and and promote as well not a while ago but still having the elementary
what we do know why you know the kind of things I say in 10 minutes of my typical
12:31 back
and if you can get that right then that much more importance in regard to
knowing you know your stuff in regard to the concern was like oh well people are
we mentioned all of you get bored I spend 15 years or more
developing and how and refining really good and you may not like what you guys
think about all the answers I don't generally good reason I don't give them
because they're not very good we require a lot of people are inclined to say that
there are actually really affect infected broken older brother named one
need to actually learn from especially my and developing the best and so he is
million staff we difference the energetic and different I'm really good
at what I do but it only have a good kick in the way of saying things I do
not really gotta that's because I'm too intellectual bad because I am gonna have
a crazy fuckin British accent you know a lot of thing trying some people up and
therefore what we interviewed by a variety of different people with
different institutions in all the injuries when tonight woodwork twice to
be going on giving essentially the same message in dhahran what about the right
meaning what were here
I guess taking it in approaching variety in doing something new and interesting I
guess also take into account the the points you brought up before about you
know but trying to use words which have a lot of association with serious I'm so
it will ease your city or emotional attachment its ok to put your community
things I've always twelves
it would be really great to our people from the religious community will be
judged community for example from different least me to get involved
within their own community thing people media reaction that religious would they
actually really feel that this is playing guard unit message that nature
while actually not found that book release date will have an actual text
book that touched it really helpful
you can start from that attack you know how to play until actually what their
text help you the opposite of what you got it and so I would love to have more
people will come from religion needs it actually did that actually getting by
but of course it over and welcome me that he had to be making whether Muslim
logically it much more community
yeah well I spoken to see people from the moment transmits Association and you
know i guess im very restful and not representative of the average more than
go cause I've made a few moments to he wouldn't be so it's interesting that the
type of people who are engaged in discussing sends another
causes related to treat role eg on the average religious person but I do
believe it is worth getting religious people involved somehow a lot of them
have a lot of money for instance and if they gonna spend money on impact areas
when you know it's been something that does as you say resonate quite well with
scripture I let me actually let me actually follow up on that because we
don't have to bring most people if we can increase the proportion of people
who really get this message to do something about it but you know from its
current level of like mind 10,000 people to like 11 timetable that would be quite
enough that would really actually make all the difference when the moment you
need this kind of thing actually already in the morning Tribune News VA shun
represents probably only a moment has done enough to bring in real money much
of your life long and then a childhood friend who actually running among Asian
American companies that sell two billion dollars to create in a variety of monks
is going to explode but that may change on a particular on the investments that
one thing
monday was a man who cried when his company should be tested
really good news so lets people are relatively agnostic about what they what
they want to do what they can do and are looking for more obvious high impact ABS
to take with it take so yes in in maybe some less and less populated areas of
longevity research health research or even focusing director and sends impact
actions people can take a hard question to answer because different people have
different names depending on the circumstances depending on what the
point out is about what other people doing the better choice to show respect
to what research focused on we are kind of doing right we already very clear
agenda that most neglected in other words we value most actually came out
you actually journey into you try to obviously narrow that gap if you giving
us money again you can be done sure that it's going to go to highly 11 we are you
know we are you the choice of going to use
we are left the question then age if you don't have your own money in various
quantities working it had a great impact and get between the people of all ages
then clearly you can make choices about which areas to eventually
we got very angry other people how to buy direct my career which eventually
end up making sure we love that you know we aren't sure everything will wear it
and of course because she's worried about getting other people sometimes I
and i'm speaking to a group class they are there any billionaire that google
mostly right
raise your hand now if you don't know anyone here and nobody running back and
then they can give us money got great you probably have a friend who can get
more money in your time you may be well you know where it came to the better and
also to yes of course I like these things I would be doing this right but
yeah that's something you know that money I like a message out there and
hopefully some of the videos are put up online convincing people push people to
learn all they scare people closer to wanting to make an impact contributions
to organizations such as your and leveraging 150 day duration to leverage
lunch every day which is just around the corner it's on the table and what once
one has celebrated longevity you do today what to do next question that's
totally welcome to you people do in preparation to have a good day on
so I'm actually going on to both questions together because I feel that
the answer is very simple
hope I just had an international data is to focus people's attention to get some
kind of critical mass together we normally have been too did you think
that just going to die so why should answer to the question what do we do
about and what do you do to it is organized all about hearing all about
bringing people together to work together and manual that is saved by
others I would rather go you know scattergun want something it's a real
movement you know it get it get far more impact among
actually make your problem among people who want to get really all about here is
my practical on your age people who are constantly under a week ago what you
should do that we'll be there were few questions I guess people we wanted to
address a couple of topics and one of them was a guy in washington needs
selflessness earlier any reading around and thinks that this bill should be
addressed one of them
metaphor min or time
and which has been described as an anti-aging pill like a bona fide drug
and current rate it's a current treatments for diseases relating to
aging not just in exchange for one disease for the other guy he created it
too much to ask you aware of it
yeah I won't have a good cleaning how to pronounce my phone had been a bad night
but the thing is that it's an interesting crowd around a long time not
change in a lot of the same as a bullet pathway you buy coverage capture guys
coming in and another Charlie doing it unfortunately that's probably more less
or it may be pretty good drugs eg a little bit ambivalent a job which he
should be considered the waiting room but they went about about is that it
seems to be automatically going to be going to be accurate and we need and not
very interesting reason is that CRX self doesn't actually work very well and that
we believe it will even less so it's all very well you know you might if you're
lucky you might get a great deal better than nothing though it's not going if so
i dont detrimental and I don't really having a baby
making about it but talking about doing something about aging well just talking
about understanding aging like now it's not sure what about nicotine ride and
then what is it then plus get all that area
ago larry is what makes this really I have exactly because it began in one way
or another
waves to stimulate saying that they hit by a car inspection and we have
absolutely no reason to expect that they will have an aggressor in effect on
health and human dignity self-doubt will change when it landed another question
was asked is there any issues that we should be locking the government about
ok so thinking about lobbying ultimately when you say anything to the government
the way they're going to be listening to what you say is always extremely
predictable people got that way because they wanted to get him elected
and that
usually may not actually drugs the politician to tell we talking to a
pending show Oprah Winfrey or whoever of you and critical thinking are people
like that should be getting them to be out on camera making opinions change
got it what will make sure that you know Mike Johnson ok so he can question is
understanding and treating aging in the brain and the different from the rest of
the body of the questions yeah okay so shouldn't you know the rain fell during
child about selling my stuff you know of course that's only if we go down the
details but the difference between the brain and other organs is not really any
greater bandwidth but when and how much do you think
degradation in immune system regulation drives aging and what methods
rejuvenating immune system do you think we should be interesting declines huge
question there are two fundamental number one is we live a particular type
of cell gordon Gee is created
early on in life until about the age of twenty especially when I know goldenthal
merge its just be grateful that we could with the way and the region were even
allowed that to happen because the reason I T cells that the book that the
famous May
away know that they keep us going to interpreting diversity we need to
recreate that we have a project that and that's one of our biggest successes in
terms of getting people on board as well I first listened accumulation of a
different type of memory t-cell in particular a particularly broken type of
memory would you not really huge number of and they're going to inhibit the
proliferation of policy so we need to get rid of that
interview pete Dougherty was one of the founders of T cells I think so familiar
with and Dr Ling Ling and technology will you know if we get really good at
Christmas technology like and as you think it's good and it's got any
delivery of large molecules is a huge part of anything we want to do against a
very clever ideas for how to get large molecules in the body and into cells
into parts of cells
yeah that could be really really exciting because they're by no means the
only people working on that problem
crashes and it could be argued that even the gondola and actually late but we'll
see how that research is supposed to be lots of different things going try
because you never know which ones actually I don't if you if we haven't
much more do I need to go and get the power supply for my computer so can we
have not yet gone to get a pass when I guess just a reminder that we are days
on the 1st of October every year
diaries and getting to you and organizing something talks with leaders
talk to people talk to local people involved in and medication that could be
useful to say yes yes ok so people like this question a lot I guess it's one
that people want to hear you say
HIV intuitions as the likelihood of likely effect of various diets 07 causes
of the sedentary things as far as we can tell
basically no impact of every kind of supplement and he can go beyond the big
enough to be measurable of course we know it's easy to accelerate damage
accumulation in due course problem but I think that the problem with spending
your entire life is too much but that's not the problem the problem might have
gotten a short while everyone is so did you were identical load is like this any
substantial genetic variants in people that could be used in order to the
medically modify the people's James of these like you know longevity James
really interesting question very very little show only ignorant
well known that one particular which exists in three different forms in human
population and particularly for me really bad for you if you got that
you like to come down with simon and Lewis lowered considerably earlier so we
might have to go in with some new technology target United 16 people
people who are only flaw
get going and change their up only four games no longer it's very simple trains
at one time and we could do it in the foreseeable future in a large proportion
in eliminating what benefit would know the reason detrimental effect occurring
for the fact that could be done all the damage is done right and the other night
you spend your whole life and Julie biologically hold their value for up to
that we don't know why did you know now you know when I'm not to be of very
complicated relationship that we stay you know it's almost implement but
here's the good news we probably don't need to worry about any because at least
within the not right
which people accumulate damaged in the April would only buried by where we are
now beginning to really believe beyond the edge and almost nobody died of
age-related problems so we are talking only about a roughly a third group to me
that if we could to try to figure out which problem which location it could
very well we got all of this comprehensive damage repair
mansions in actually everybody a bit more but then they read more rapidly
aging and just live with the fact that we're treating the less rapidly aging
even diagnosed ok well I guess one more question and that is what's in the cards
for sands in the next five years
say I mean my dad might be hard to predict a bit like what do you think
you'll be doing next five years
couple of things i would like to say in response to a question of course we have
no I have been going to be because that's all about donations were or
whether we already know which i think is probably the most important is that we
are saying really in a
into the private tracks where we are with a non-profit 501 C three public
charity we do have much logging system they developed country to get my
activation and I need one more about that but yea charity really were
charging much of what we doing the case against that will turn you are you
making good progress because we want to invest and make money at the end nearly
1000 we are seeing a huge tickets only about us and in relation to our own
project being checked out like a sore throat is well versed in 2012 but now
only people who has correctly good and well I think we're going to create
incredibly long though so I think it's absolutely critical to our mission at
the end of the day
kick-start independence on this is actually happening since all the way
through my head of source file initiative some of the output will be
taken on by third parties and developed over and the private industry
I think maybe 20 go to put everybody asked me what my ultimate goal is one
word to describe the way you want to be in my word on that option I want to get
this economy
cause we enjoy every second every program that needs to be put forward for
taken further forward by when judge in that situation of the chargeable traffic
incidents that we are currently Biden would be upset but I don't see happening
tomorrow thanks very much you time and yeah yeah thanks sorry